Big RV Solar & Lithium Setup
KYD’s Approach to Solar
Our philosophy toward RVing has always been “starting small, now is better than starting big, later”.
This approach applies to solar too. Our first system was a simple two x 6v battery setup with a 600-watt inverter and a 140-watt portable solar panel. As we gained more experience and started to dry camp more combined with knowing our power needs, we began to upgrade.
If you’re not ready to invest in the ideal solar & battery system, don’t let that stop you from getting started. Even a starter system will provide increased freedom and open up more dry camping opportunities. Once the cables are pulled through your RV, adding onto your system each year will be easy, especially when it comes to lithium batteries.
Our Battery & Solar System Breakdown
Below is a breakdown of the cost for this solar installation. These are retail prices. Keep in mind, there are savings when purchasing in bundles. Battle Born Batteries offers bundles to help you save. The costs were itemized so you can price what according to your needs. The installation for our Grand Design was 40 hours, but the installation time will depend on the overall project scope and where all the components will be mounted.
Itemized Breakdown of all the Components and Estimated Labor Cost
- 6 x 100Ah 12V GC2 LiFePO4 Deep Cycle Battery $1,049 each
- 6 x Heat Pad for BBGC2 $220 each
- 1 x Victron Inverter/Charger 12V 3000W MultiPlus $1,274
- Victron Battery Monitor with Bluetooth Built-in BMV 712 $206
- Precision Circuits LiFePO4 Battery Isolation Manager $172.10
- Precision Circuits Battery Guard $172.10
- EastStart 364 (3-ton) Soft Start $299 (KYD1 saves $25)
- Progressive Dynamics 60-amp Lithium Converter $268
- 4 x 300 Watt Joboni Solar Panels $773.49 each
- 4 x 30 amp MPPT Solar Charge Controller $189.00
- Labor was roughly 40 hours @ $100/per hour, but would depend on the RV and scope of work
- Solar cables and wires estimated at 15% of the labor installation cost
*The links above are affiliate links, but they don’t add any cost to the products. The Battle Born Bundle offers a saving on retail pricing.
The Advantages of Lithium
We learned the hard way that running lead-acid batteries below 50% or killing them all together is a sure-fire way to get your awning left out in a wind storm! Maybe you’re better at remembering to add distilled water to your batteries, but we’ll be the first to admit that we’re terrible at it. Granted, lithium batteries are 5-6 times the cost of lead-acid, but they also last 5-6 times as long and you’ll get to enjoy twice as much power along the way. Just like your phone, when you run your battery to zero (it happens), just re-charge and you’re good to go. Zero maintenance. Zero hassle. Combined with the Victron Battery Monitor and you’ll know the status of your batteries through your phone at all times making dry camping far more enjoyable.
The Installation with Future Sales
FutureSales, Inc |Elkhart, INWe were surprised to learn how difficult it was to find a reputable company that offers quality solar installation, especially on the road. We also wanted to work with a company that felt 100% comfortable recommending to the KYD community and we found it in a big way. The best way to describe the team at Future Sales is a solar think tank. They know electrical systems so well that there was not endless troubleshooting and testing, but rather, calm conversations and then execution.
We also learned that there is a distinct advantage of working with a company located in Elkhart, IN where a majority of the RV manufacturers are located. Future Sales has the ability to get OEM parts from down the street and even electrical schematics that most companies don’t have access to. If you’re anywhere near IN, we recommend connecting with the team at Future Sales.
Running the A/C on Batteries
“Can you run the A/C on Solar” is a question we get often. And now the answer is yes, but you’ll need a couple of things to make it happen. First, you’ll need a battery bank and inverter large enough to handle the load and the second is a Micro-Air Easy Start 364.
As mentioned in the video, any device with the motor has an initial surge of amperage when starting. This is usually the surge that shuts-down the invertor or stops a single generator. The Easy Start 364 softens the start-up process and makes running your A/C possible with your batteries or single generator.
To get the technical information, specs, installation instructions and more, visit MicroAir.net *Use promo code KYD1 to get $25 off the Micro-Air Easy Start
and how much did this cost?? I am guessing at least $15K. this is stuff people only dream of
This looks like it would be more in the 20k realm
Sounds like a daydream system! That’s over 10k just for the panels and batteries. We love Victron for the smartphone connectivity. Luckily, we are low power users while boondocking. We don’t have more than 2500 in our smallish solar setup and love it! Haven’t been able to make the lithium upgrade yet. Tanksize crops our boondocking shorter than we’d like.
Sounds like a Daydream! What an amazing killer system. We love Victron for the smartphone connectivity. Luckily, we are low power users while boondocking. We don’t have more than 2500 in our smallish solar setup and love it! Haven’t been able to make the lithium upgrade yet, but really, our tank size crops our boondocking shorter than we’d like.
We have been following KYD for over a year now and as a result modeled our solar system similar to what you had – 4 battleborn 100 amp batteries, victron 3000w multi plus, 70 amp victron controler and victron battery monitor but have 1040w renogy panels. We did everything ourselves, unfortunately there is a lack of detailed information out there and required us to do some real investigation.
The system works great and we are free from staying in full service parks – it’s not a dream but reality if you want to be free.
We are from NYS and have a 33′ fifth wheel. You encouraged us with your videos!!! We left early June 2019 to Alaska and are still on our trip, returning from Alaska – in Northern California. It has been Great.
I’ll add pricing above soon.
All the pricing has been added to the page.
$18,470 as listed…
Your close, I added up all of the individual items (minus the solar cables and wires) and came up to $15,343.16.. Labor was right around $4,000.00 and 15% of that is $600.00 = a total of $15,943.16… This may be a little less than what Mark and Trish paid. FSI has marked down the batteries just a bit, but hay, every little bit helps…
Fantastic video as always. Anybody thinking about solar needs to watch this; it’s not an easy topic to wrap one’s head around.
Was wondering if weight became a part of the conversation at any time. Perhaps with a big rig like that there was ample room under max gross weight where it wasn’t much of a concern, but that had to be several hundred pounds of gear.
And I’m really bummed that I just discovered you folks in the last month or so. We go to AirVenture Oshkosh every year and this year we decided to camp for the first time. We used our popup, though we’ve been looking at travel trailers for over five years. It was our experience at Oshkosh this year that pushed us over the edge to get a new rig, and we will be taking delivery of a GD Imagine 2800BH in two weeks. And had I known you were at Oshkosh, I could have shown you an amazing time. It is truly aviation heaven.
Keep up the great work!
Rich:
The BattleBorn LiFePO4 batteries are quite light compared to a similar Lead-acid battery.
100 amp hour battery:
LiFePO4 – 29 pounds
lead-acid – 50 to 100 pounds (varies by size and brand)
Given that you can get up to 1000 cycles out of a LiFePO4 versus roughly 100 out of a lead-acid, plus you don’t have to vent them, they can be mounted in roughly any orientation makes up for the difference in cost. These makes sense if you are going off-grid frequently or are full-time and need the option to dry camp. Might not be so for someone who is more casual. However, if I could run most of my appliances while being out of a RV park I’d do it for sure!
Excellent video. We modeled our solar setup after your first install using Victron battery monitor and MPPT controller, but used an AIMS 2500w power inverter/converter, along with two Trojan 6V Batteries. I re-wired so that we can use the 120v plugs throughout the RV. LOVE IT! With this setup were you able to use all of the power outlets within the RV? Also, how much incoming power (amps) are you getting with the battery isolator when driving?
Hi Guys,
We really enjoy show. I’m really interested in solar and learning as much as possible. What was the total cost of your system? I do have one Battle Born Battery at this time and looking to up grade to a full system.
Thank you for the information looking forward to the link! I like the thought of buying a little each year, something we could plan!
What a great set up! Can you give us a break down of all the costs? I’m just starting out and would like an idea of what I’m looking at. Also I’m in California. Are there any places like Future Sales out this way?
Great family and love your channel!
Thank you!
Just completed the installation of a Victron 12v/3000w inverter/charger and 400ah of Battle Born batteries this past weekend. I purchase my system as a DIY project from AM Solar in Oregon. The thing I really like about there system is the Smart Phase Selector which allows the Inverter to supply power to both sides of the AC panel so there is no need to move loads.
Danny – Probably about 10K retail
Victron Multi – 1400
BBGC2 950 ea -5700
24 man hours @ 100 – 2400
Danny – Probably about 10K retail
Victron Multi – 1400
BBGC2 950 ea -5700
24 man hours @ 100 – 2400
Just installed a comparable system in May
Hey guys, GREAT video, as usual. Have a question on the diagram drawn where he showed the L1 and L2 legs being split up to an Inverted and Non-Inverted side, then going into the 120v DP, which I get. But, what I DON’T get, is that he shows the output coming from the Inverter. It seems the main output should be coming out of the 120v Dist Panel.
This may be way too technical, but I only ask, just in case it was an error in the drawing…which I highly doubt; this stuff makes me dizzy!
I just got clarification from a good friend who knows this stuff well. He said it’s correct; the line from the inverter is going to 12v. I couldn’t see that very well. Now it makes sense.
The inverter has pass through capability so rather than running to the AC dist panel first, leg 1 was routed to the inverter first, then to one side of the distribution panel. This was to maximize the AC loads powered by the inverter when not on shore power or generator.
Just wondering what kind of a/c units if you have the model #. The 12v welding cable between the truck and the fifth wheel is something I thought would work for a long time. And you guys just proved it. I also thought of making the truck into a passive power station by mounting solar panels on the truck over the back and maybe the cab (it would be a bumper pull trailer) so that you could gain a lot more amperage if you had a small trailer/roof space. Also using the truck bed to store some batteries if the smaller trailer. Anyway, if you have the model number of the a/c unit. thx in advance
What brand of battery heater and system did you use?
I’ll be adding the brand and link to this blog soon, witch the price.
Is it not possible to charge the batteries with the solar while driving. This would not require the installation of charge cable from the truck
Yes, but you’d be amazed how many days it rains while fulltiming. When in AK, there were 5-7 day stretches of nothing but rain. We’d show up to the campsite below our inverting amperage. Truck charging is essential. Not nessicialy a dedicated line like we did, but some level of trickle. The new trucks are difficult to accomplish that.
Can you give details on truck charging?
Think blog is stuck and only displaying comments around Sep 09.
We just added a 1 ott cable from the second battery back through an Anderson Connection.
What would it cost for the work you had done plus the equipment.
Wondering about the DC battery heating pads. Where did you source them?
Thx
They are $200 each. They should be on the BB website this week.
Considering what they are that seems hugely expensive. A battery warmer with a thermostat. Then again in Boise the Onan dealer charges $157/hr to fix your Genset. I guess working on generators is like rocket science at least to Onan.
Great video guys, my wife and I are planning on going FT in just under a year and a video like this is great. It would be awesome to see also a scaled down version that can be added to over time. My big question though is, how much have you used your generator? I am on the fence as to whether to get one or not, or just put the generator cost toward a solar/LiFePo setup. can you give a pro’s v con’s of each? Thanks!
We have been following since you launched!
Opinions will vary based on *how* people travel and where people like to go, but based on how we travel, we think a gen is essential. It’s a bailout during extended rainy days (happens a lot) and the only way to sleep during a hot summer night. I would start with a gen, which is inexpensive and add batteries and solar after you know your power needs. The nice thing about lithium is they are easy to add batteries later.
Hi Marc,
We’ve been doing a lot solar in our shop the last few years and with that lithium batteries are just a natural progression. We are a battle born dealer and really like these batteries, glad to see you have them now. I’ll have to pay more attention to your page to see how living with them works for you.
I do have a question on your solar charge controller, I saw you answered a post that the victron CC wasn’t compatible and that’s why you went with the 4 that you installed. Can you please explain in detail why it’s not compatible what you were told, etc. We have used the Victron CC with many different brands of panels and have not seen any issues or concerns. I’m very curious to what you know!
Thanks,
Jim Lewis
Infinity Coach
Hey Jim, Good to hear from you. I just emailed Josh. I’ll find out.
Marc; I am interested in more details on the charging from your truck to the system. I have an F350 with the heavy duty alternators so the install should be similar.
Thanks in Advance; Jeff
Any update on the truck to coach LiFePO4 bank? Any problems with alternator overheating?
Marc, I am uncertain as to what you are utilizing the Progressive Dynamics 60-amp Lithium Converter for? Thanks in advance.
Apparently, it pumps more power into the batteries from the gen for faster charging.
At 16:23 in the vidoe you say each panel (at peak) creates 30amps. When I looked at the specs for that panel, it creates 32.26 volts (Vmpp) but only 9.3amps (Impp). What am I missing?
I was talking DC and I’m guessing the specs are in AC. Or I’m wrong. I’ve personally seen 80+ amps net in the sun while running appliances.
An F450 battery to coach battery wiring parts question. Installer was under the hood showing you how to operate the breaker and the installer also called it a quick disconnect. What part description and number is that?
So its 1-ought wiring, breaker/quick disconnect (brand, model etc. please) Anderson connector, battery isolation manager, Battery Guard, then coach batteries? (I am not using lithium.)
If I missed the info in your posts, I apologize :D.
Thanks, Robert
Thanks for the video Mark. After another dead battery issue at the tailgate, I decided to order two Battle Born batteries to replace my lead acid batteries. I am thinking of adding a single solar panel for minimum recharging.
Thanks,
Melvin
Thank you so much for the awesome breakdown of your system! The one question I have is how you manage switching between shore power and generator power when necessary. I understand that the Victron Quattro can accept two AC inputs, but how do you manage that on the MultiPlus? Are there any advantages to going with the MultiPlus over the Quattro? Thanks again!!
I think it does it automatically. If not, it would be done through the multi-plus app, but I’ve never done it.
Great video resource; thanks kyd!
We are a couple with a 28’ airstream. (Pendleton.). We don’t anticipate needing 6 batteries—more like 4 battery system seems right for us. (My better half has a fancy hair dryer, made by Dyson, which works faster than most blow dryers and requires less power.). Is there a way to adjust the package to fit our needs?
We come from Reno, home of battleborn; should we contact them directly?
Hi Mark,
I really like your videos. I’m about 4 years from early retirement. My wife and I really want to full time rv when we do retire for 6 or 7 months every year. We’ve got a camp with off grid solar. 4 each 340 watt panels and 25oo watt inverter. 24 volt dc system. Love it. I just wanted to point out that with a 12 volt system when you say your using 10 amps, thats 10 amps at 12 volts. You’re actual using 1 amp at 120 volts after inverting. amps = watts/volts. Anyway, I also wonder about your roof installation. Water damage is probably the biggest enemy of an rv. I would be worried about sealing against that. Any further info as to how to safely accomplish the installation would be nice. Thanks
Hey Marc,
Loved the video. Did you install a Auto Gen Start?
Thanks for all the great content,
Best regards,
Kirk Mueller (aka Capt. Chaos)
I did not. That would have been nice. I think it was an option with Magnum.
Hello,
Thanks for sharing your adventures and information with the community. We enjoy your videos and production quality.
Question: your solar kit includes one large charge controller but your installation includes 4 smaller. Is there a reason for this
Can you give me the part number for the Victron dongle?
Thank you
I’m pretty sure the image a link to their site.
If you read up on the Precision Circuits Lithium BIM, you’ll see that the device passes current from the alternator for 15 minutes every 35 minutes. This means that the effective charging amperage is significantly reduced. I inquired about this with both Battleborn and Precision Circuits and learned that they created this charging profile in order to protect the alternator from Lithium batteries which could try to draw a high current on a continuous basis. In my opinion, this is a really poor way to protect an alternator that may be quite capable of delivering high current, particularly on a Ford Super Duty with dual alternators (this happens to be my setup on my 250 Diesel and presumably yours as well on your 450). A much better approach is to use a DC to DC “Buck Boost” device, such as the one available from Victron. Your 600AH of LiFePo4 batteries could be almost completely charged after, say, a few hours drive. However, with that Lithium BIM, it’s going to take substantially longer. Check it out. I did and I decided not to use that device and my system design is very similar to yours.
The real problem is that most vehicle alternators cannot deliver their rated capacity on a continuous basis. A lithium battery bank can absorb very high current for hours before it is fully charged. Typically a vehicle alternator will deliver high amperage for 2-5 minutes after starting the engine and then settle down to something in the range of 10-30 amps (whatever is required for ordinary driving). I think that 15 minutes at max. amps followed by 20 minutes of the alternator cooling off is a workable solution, but I’ve decided to go with a battery to battery charger that is 60 amps current limited (into a 600A battery bank). My 175 amps alternator should be able to handle that all day without problems (knock on wood).
Hi Marc, Great video and solar explanations. I’m looking to install the Victron Multiplus and BB batteries soon. On the whiteboard diagram it shows L1 passing thru inverter first before going to the ac panel. and L2 directly to ac panel. How do you run your AC’s on inverter? Did you leave all AC’s on L1 or balance them out on L1 and L2 and can only run 1 AC while you are inverting and have no shore power?
Thank you
Gene
Hi Ben,
Managing switching between shore power and the generator is done by the automatic transfer switch (ATS). Every RV with a generator and shore power connection (and every house with generator backup has one). Basically it prevents the output of the generator from feeding back into the utility grid and killing the guy trying to fix the problem with the shore power. A few years ago I did some research on Multi-Plus vs. Quattro and there were disadvantages to using the Quattro and no advantages (for my circumstances anyway). I don’t recall the specifics. The Multi-Plus (or Quattro) has no idea where it’s external power is coming from.
Hi Marc,
I enjoy your videos and have taken your YouTube class.
It seems everyone is wondering about the Distribution Panel wiring. The white board is vague.
Both the transfer switch and the inverter go to it, but how is it broken out? Does the power go through the distribution panel to the Multiplus and to a sub-panel?
Do you have a more detailed wiring schematic?
I went to the Victron website for the Multiplus diagram. https://amsolar.com/rv-inverters-chargers/99-vt3000kit
Does this line up with what you had done?
Did you move all the circuits to the Multiplus, or just select circuits?
I know that is a lot of question.
Thanks,
Mark
Hello KYD, can you also add to the page the solar panels you used in this setup?
For the momentum models that come wired for solar would that cut down on costs youve listed?
“pre-wired” for solar is kinda a joke. It means that you can plug in a portable panel vs. connecting to the battery with alligator clips. It’s not the kind of pre-wire that people think.
I COMPLETELY second what Marc says here. “Pre-wired” is nothing but 10g wire and an adapter plug (usually brand specific) that connects directly to the battery. It does not go thru your converter. Additionally, be aware there is no in-line fuse protection, solar charge controller, inverter or battery management system in a “Pre-wired” system. In short, it’s usually there to get you to buy a specific, portable solar panel system that will only power/charge your 12V accessories and is limited in capability in the long run.
Hi. Nice video as usual. I’d point out that I didn’t see a Huges Autoformer & Power Protector anywhere in your bay, maybe they’re sitting outside. Since everybody is an “expert” my opinion is worth what you paid for it 🙂 If I followed everything correctly, only one leg of your system can be powered by the inverter unless you’re bridging both legs of your ac distribution somewhere that I didn’t notice. The best way that I’ve seen to remedy that other than adding a second inverter, is to insert a Victron Autoformer after your inverter output and before your ac distribution panel, then use it to create a split phase 240 output. If you did that, you would have essentially the same thing as shorepower. The 5500w of your generator could be added to by your inverter to the tune of 5500w+3000w=8500w when necessary and would be supplying both legs of your ac distribution. Not cheap but it’s not my money 🙂
If you think about it, the feedthrough contactor in your inverter represents a single point of failure for everything on L1. Of course, the likelihood of that contactor failing is low, as is the inverter itself, but if it does, you are SOL. I would have installed a 3-pole, manual AC selector switch so that your house AC distribution can completely bypass your inverter and take your shore/gen directly. That way, your next (and only) single point of failure is your house transfer switch. If you’re really a maniac about reliability, you could install sockets in front of, and after the house transfer switch with “jumpers” so you could patch around the house transfer switch when the cheapo contactors they use decide to sizzle.
In any event, using that transformer to create a new split phase feed also has the advantage of boosting your potential power on both legs from a 30A shorepower supply (with 30A to 50A cheater cord) to 3600w+3000w to 6600w (more than your generator would provide). Clearly, you wouldn’t want to be running 3 A/C units off your batteries but everything in your trailer would be capable of being lit up as if you were on shorepower.
If you stepped up to a 5kw Quattro, your potential output would presumably rise to 5500w (gen) + 5000w (inv) to just 2000w short of a full 50A shorepower supply. When on a 30A shorepower supply, 3600w+5000w=8600w which for short duration high current loads would be pretty impressive and invisible to the end user.
Before I read your last comment, I was going to suggest something like a a REDARC BCDC1250D between your truck and your trailer batteries. Since you didn’t go into detail on what you decided on and for the benefit of anybody else out there, it’s a 12V, 50A charger that even has a solar charge controller input 🙂 It does not directly tie the truck batteries to the trailer batteries (scary if you ask me), rather it isolates the truck system from the trailer and boosts its output to the charging voltage needed by your trailer batteries. The alternator in a truck should be able to handle 50A continuous duty cycle at idle much less at highway speed, and it could be installed right in the bed of the truck assuming the user has a cover. Yes, a 50A charge rate might take longer but you’re not directly connecting your truck system to your trailer system.
Just my two cents 🙂
Jon
How and where are they tying in the, Progressive Dynamics 60-amp Lithium Converter? I see that you mentioned it was behind the wall but is there any way you can draw how its wired into the exisiting “whiteboard diagram” or maybe have future sales draw it if you reached out to them? Thanks for the inspiration, Going to attempt a self install 😀 last piece of the puzzle is this for me
Wondering where you guys got the copper bus bars for the battery terminals on your battery bank. I’m duplicating your system except with the advancement in technology, mine will be an upgrade. Look into Am Solar and their SPS. Instead of only powering up one leg on your power panel, you’ll be able to power up both legs with the same multi plus 3000. I would love to talk to you more about some of the components that they installed. Love your videos!
Rusty
Those bus bars came with the battle born batteries. If you have the same type of terminals, they may be available on their website.
I’d like to be able to recharge my Li Battleborn batteries through my F350 and wiring it like you did with the Anderson connector. Two things you didn’t cover were (1) how you wired from the Anderson connector back to the trailer (routing, battery connection, etc) and (2) the link to the LiBIM that was discussed, but not included in your parts list. Can you help with details?
My wife and I just purchased our first TT a Grand Design Imagine. We are looking to purchase an inverter generator. Do you have any recommendations? I really can’t afford solar right now.
We are working with Future Solutions to try to fit a date window this summer. I want to include the Battery to Battery (DC to DC) system between our 1-ton diesel pickup and trailer to allow additional charging while underway. We do not have a generator installed in our 5-th. This system would provide a good backup to the solar. I can not determine from the items listed what products you used to make this system addition. I know this was awhile back in time, but we are new to KYD. We would sure appreciate a quick mention of how they put it together.
Any info on running a residential refrigerator on this solar/battery system?
I would also like to know this.
A lot of page not found errors on the links for the cost of the components and their descriptions.
Might be making a trip all the way from Calgary, Alberta, Canada to get a killer install done at FSI.. Lots of upgrades to the solar offering since Marc and Trish posted this video 3 years ago! lol
1205
1235
Couldn’t find a specific place to “enter” our guess.
1175